Dear ****, just read the whole Biden Newsweek interview.
Biden can be a blowhard, but I am sure if you read the whole
deal you know that he presented a pretty nuanced real-politick answer to how
America might set the bar to leave Afghanistan.
Your post seems to suggest that he just said the Taliban isn’t
America's enemy as if he didn’t know that Al Qaeda and the Taliban were closely
connected or have any other geo-political context, which it clearly did.
On Al Qaeda Biden said that it was his estimation the Al Qaeda
has had “serious damage done to their infrastructure in a way that the
coherence of this thing called al Qaeda and their ability to metastasize has
been severely damaged.” Further on he cautioned that the job was not done.
The question on the Taliban came later and your post suggests
the remark was made on its own which seems pretty naïve. However, he prefaced
the remark with, “We are in a position where if Afghanistan ceased and desisted
from being a haven for people who do damage and have as a target the United
States of America and their allies, that’s good enough. That’s good enough.
We’re not there yet.
“Look, the Taliban per se is not our enemy. That’s critical.
There is not a single statement that the president has ever made in any of our
policy assertions that the Taliban is our enemy because it threatens U.S.
interests. If, in fact, the Taliban is able to collapse the existing
government, which is cooperating with us in keeping the bad guys from being
able to do damage to us, then that becomes a problem for us. So there’s a dual
track here.
“One, continue to keep the pressure on al Qaeda and continue
to diminish them. Two, put the government in a position where they can be
strong enough that they can negotiate with and not be overthrown by the
Taliban. And at the same time try to get the Taliban to move in the direction
to see to it that they, through reconciliation, commit not to be engaged with
al Qaeda or any other organization that they would harbor to do damage to us
and our allies.”
To the chagrin of many of us on the progressive left who view
the current Afghan government as hopelessly corrupt and so would prefer a more
expeditious withdrawal, Obama’s policy seems pretty close to where Bush was and
would be. With domestic budget pressures and the war weariness of the American
public I’m betting that Obama’s position is pretty much where McCain would be. A June
Gallup poll showed 50% support among Republicans for withdrawal and 72%
overall. It seems that the opposite of Biden’s full statement is open ended commitment in Afghanistan with departure predicated on total defeat of the Taliban, and their total exit from Tora Bora. Is that where you want to go? Good luck with that.
Mike, The President has said that the Taliban was complicit in protecting Osama bin Laden while the United States spent most of the past 10 years looking for him. We never recognized the Taliban as a legitimate government. So if you protect our enemy then they are also our enemy.
So Mike tell me, are you in agreement that this President is absolutely trying to destroy our capitalistic system in order to install his Marxist version of government. And is that what you desire?
So Mike tell me, are you in agreement that this President is absolutely trying to destroy our capitalistic system in order to install his Marxist version of government. And is that what you desire?
****,
You really want to get into this? No, I don't think Obama is
a Marxist.
I am pretty sure I reside about as far on the left as you do
on the right. Still I know we could talk 20 years ago, and I guess we’ll see if
we can have a dialogue today. I understand that Biden's language infuriates you
and others on the right, but no one in either party is willing to allow a
continuation of an open ended continuation in Afghanistan. That ship has
sailed. On Iraq lost soul Republicans like Krauthammer pitifully talk of Obama
stealing failure from the “jaws of victory”, but that ship has really sailed
with over 70% supporting withdrawal.
You and I might come to different conclusions for why it is
that so many feel this way, but Americans are weary of war, especially these
two wars, and that as they say is that. To acknowledge that is real politick, and
no matter the fire from the right the candidate of each party is going to have
to deal with the lack of American support for further military action. I
believe the reasons for the anti-war sentiment has more to do with revulsion
with the body count than democrat or repub politics, but in the real world the
reasons don’t matter anymore. America wants these wars over with and that is
what they are going to get.
In addition as you know both parties are extremely anxious
to get their hands on the budget savings the war winddown would bring-- The
Repubs for deeper tax cuts, the Dems to lessen the impact of spending cuts.
Both want to show fiscal discipline on the budget and both want to use this
money to speak narrowly to their own constituency about their core issue, while
speaking to the independents about budget constraint. Each party is on a
slippery slope there. But across the country the real issue is that everyone knows
people in their community that were lost in either the Afghan war or the colossal
cluster f*** that was the war in Iraq. These two wars will soon come to a close
because that is what most Americans want.
Back to Biden’s remarks, the reality is that Al Qaeda is on
the run and severely weakened and anger over 9-11 has dissipated, and so the
time for fighting and killing is closing fast. Suggesting Obama and Biden are fellow
travelers to the Taliban is sort of an absurd proposition considering their record
of military strikes on Al Qaeda, and especially the extra-judicial drone execution
of two American born terror suspects in Yemen, which I know you had issues
with.
I believe Biden was pretty much signaling that the Afghan mission
is about over. Within the administration Biden was always more militarily cautious
than Obama who felt he had to prove his bonafides to the military right. It
seems to me that Biden is trying to send two clear signals to people on my side
of the ledger as well as political independents tired of war:
1) We
know you are impatient about the length of these wars but we have manageable
goals in Afghanistan and we’re going to leave there too.
2) Remember,
those of you on the left that complain, we promised we would end the Iraq war
and that is what we did. We know you liberal democrats are pissed, but we are
telling you the end is near in Afghanistan. Since we kept our promise in Iraq,
even though you’re pissed you should believe us we will keep our promise in
Afghanistan.
I know you’ll find this hard to believe but there is a
chance that Obama & Biden sort of believe they may not win your vote, or
any votes from those on the right that seem them as Marxists. I doubt they’ll
make much effort in that regard. But many on my side of the ledger are a little
pissed and they’re worried we won’t show up next November. More importantly the
country wants the US to pull back, this is one of the main reasons I think Ron
Paul is as high in the polls as he is. Perhaps Biden wasn’t speaking to you, or
rather he was, but he was trying to make a larger point and it may be that he
really doesn’t care what you say or think about it.
BTW, I ain’t no Marxist communist either. Sorry to bust your
carefully constructed bubble. I am a businessman, and have been since you and I
met 30 years ago. I have made a good living, and less than a good living, but I
have always been able to provide for my family, and I have always done that in
the world of business.
Like you I am well read, and have an active mind and
interest in political thought and current events. Like you I think half the
country has been bamboozled. On that we are similar and also widely apart. I am
a liberal progressive democrat. This year I have often been angry with my party
and my president for being too timid to stand up to the republican right, who
by the way pretty much ran the table until the payroll tax cut plan hit them in
the face like a well- timed pie this December.
What a hoot! Just a few days before Christmas and a few
weeks before Iowa, every repub candidate now has to answer where they stand on
the republican house blockage of “middle class tax cuts”. I watched Romney
squirm this morning when asked and enjoyed that quite a lot.
Why you Republicans are so pissed considering how compliant
this president has been baffles many of us on the democratic left. Obama has stood
down on climate change and energy management choosing to do little or nothing. He
has shut down some oil exploration outlets and displaying chicken on the pipeline,
but as you know exploration mostly owing to the price of the stuff is way up. Obama
passed health care but instead of single
payer government controlled which I happen to believe is the only way to hold
down costs-- which by the way have gone from 8% GDP to 17% GDP in the last 30
years-- Obama authorized a giveaway to the insurance industry although with
substantial strings on what they do. He completely caved on the debt talks. Wall
Street income is back to where it was before the crash, Six banks are now unfettered
enough that they control the baking industry. Half a dozen more were swallowed
by the big six. Through the primaries only the liberal Huntsman proposes any solution
to that. The criminals who pilloried Wall Street, the leaders of all the big
banks, an early target of the Tea Party, are back to business as usual. To many
of us it seems Obama’s rhetoric has been pretty anti-business but his policies
have been anything but. We can believe this is true because despite the
rhetoric Obama has raised more money on Wall Street than the entire Repub field
combined. If Obama is a Marxist socialist then there are a lot of dumb f***ing
bankers out there. Well, that may be true, but you get the point.
I believe that corporate influence has completely corrupted
the political process. The two billion that will be spent on this election
process—likely more than half of it flowing to Obama-- is a deeply corrupting
influence for both parties. The Citizens United decision which equated
unregulated corporate and union contributions with free speech was injurious to
our political process and the public perception and integrity of both parties. Romney had to squeeze through the eye of a
needle on that this morning too, explaining his contorted policy on unregulated
PAC money and the advertising it buys. Quite entertaining, really.
I do not believe the Tea Party can be considered a grass
roots movement when the $15 Million in seed money to get started came from the billionaire
Koch brothers. As you know, they run the largest privately held business in the
US. In my view they run what is essentially a criminal enterprise that skirts
federal and state worker safety and environmental laws by purchasing regulators
and mouthpieces on the right such as Bachman, Cain, and Perry to carry their
message. I did a substantial amount of research on their criminal and civil
record of the Koch brothers and posted a lengthy piece on that on the blog.
http://faithnmagic.blogspot.com/2011/11/hvae-koch-and-frown.html
I believe that nothing gets done in Washington, not because
the two parties can’t agree on anything, but because special interests are
always lined up with substantial campaign cash to make sure things are not done
for the American people. More often than
not these are business interests.
Because of the corruption of campaign cash, neither party
can well make the case that they are fighting for the middle and working class.
But here is where subtly seems not to have escaped the electorate, and where a
lot of people have figured something out” There is a wash of corruption across
the land. This is in my view the reason for the rise of the Tea Party and the Occupy
movement and it may give rise yet to a third party candidate. By and large Americans
by the tens of millions have lost faith in the two party system. Over 60%now
believe the table is tilted in the direction of the rich. Blame it on the Marxist
rhetoric of the President if you want, but when one reads that the six Walton
heirs control more wealth through their inheritance than 100 million Americans
and sees Cain call people lazy and stupid for their poverty, the message sort
of sinks in. You’ve been f***ed! Now I know the right is pissed, but it is this
essential and obvious inequality that is really driving the polls right now.
The parties are to put it simply buried under too much
campaign corruption. I believe that the budget is out of control: Because 1)
The Republicans are locked at the hip to Grover Norquist’s no tax pledge, and
2) because the Democrats are locked at the hip to the entitlement bureaucracy.
Most Americans know that taxes must rise back to something
approaching the Clinton years, especially on the wealthy, and that the growth
in entitlements must be restrained based on the demographic changes in America
and across the globe, but neither party trusts America enough-- even their own
supporters-- to tell them the truth. On
the other hand Romney proposals to cut funding for Public TV or Planned
Parenthood are demagogic and cannot be taken seriously in any budget
discussion. These are political postures parading as conservative budget
management. Moreover, based on filibuster rules in the Senate they are unlikely
to be enacted, and serve mainly for one candidate or another to prove his
credentials to the party faithful, who—especially in Romney’s case—don’t trust
him.
In my view the deficits are neither party’s fault in their
totality. The blame I believe lies with the American voter, who divides its
vote between tax cutters and spending protectors, and switches back and forth
on that from election to election. And
as we know in Republican and democrat CD’s alike, budget hawks cut someone else’s
program, and brag about bringing home the bacon to their own.
But in general if you endorse the tax cutters, while
simultaneously supporting the government programs that you favor what you’ll
get is budget deficits. That as we know is what we got. In an economic downturn
when revenues are further reduced by softening economic activity you’ll get
deficits to the 3rd power, something like what we have.
Now voters are pissed off at a Congress-- extreme on both
sides-- that does just what they elected them to do: Stand and fight. Those low congressional approval ratings are laughable.
So often the same voters that are pissed off at Congress love or like their
extremist congressman.
That being said those that blame this all on one party and
the last three years of governance have NO credibility, especially based on the
profligate Bush years. Republicans conservatives act now as if Obama invented
the economic down turn. 524,000 people were laid off in December of 2008, and
in January of 2009 when Obama was inaugurated an additional 600,000 people were
laid off. 1.1 million layoffs in two months. In all of 2008 the economy shed
2.6 million jobs. Memo to Bush: Nice job, d***head.
Politics is politics, and we can be the Democrats would be all over McCain if he had similar
results at this stage in his presidency, but Obama does not operate in a
vacuum. The need for recovery can clearly be blamed on Bush, the lack of
recovery, on Obama.
Where you see a Marxist threat hiding behind every corner,
and people like me as well intentioned but ill-informed at best, or complete Marxist
traitors at worst, I see middle and working class Americans voting for a well-funded
Republican right for no rational reason that I can see. I see hard working and
often fearful Americans vote against their economic interest for a Republican party
that does not care about them economically. There are many on the left that see
the political season social issue pandering as a cynical election ploy, at least as old as Reagan and Nixon, icons
of the right.
Conservatives believe the Republicans care about them because
they have spoken to them in myriad other ways that convinces them that their
party is on the same page as them. The right cynically goes after gays, civil
rights, immigration and abortion—social issues in general. But the right moves
the dial on these issues not at all, which further embitters the conservative base
leading I believe to the freak show we have seen this election season. Every
debate provides another opportunity to showcase the heartless left. Frat boys thugs
boo a gay soldier, cheer 200+ executions in Texas and hoot “Let him die!” when
a candidate is asked what to do with someone who becomes ill without health insurance.
But despite these thugs the fact is the record on social progress
over the last few decades is toward a more liberal and tolerant society and a
more isolated social conservative base, seemingly trapped in their poor southern
states with decades of Republican leadership at the state level, with poor
records of economic development, and educational
improvement. The Texas miracle under Perry is one of low wage jobs with no
health insurance and poor educational performance. He won’t get nominated, but
Perry would have never sold that pile of s*** in national elections. Obama’s billion
dollar machine would have hollowed him out. Perry of course realizing this
chose to unofficially suspend his campaign and proceed with villainizing gays.
Smart move.
Though they have accomplished precious little social issue
election strategies are effective weapons to hold, retain, or regain power. But
Americans continue to push forward with every more and expanding civil rights. Other than the increasingly isolated
Evangelicals Americans after all-- while fiscally conservative-- are
essentially socially liberal. Despite the money poured into the process to feed
a perception of anger that would try to make it seem otherwise, they are most
comfortable with a live and let live posture. Moreover, there are millions of
Americans who essentially believe that the expansion of rights is a good and
American quality, and the curtailment of rights is essentially un-American.
Bottom line is that on the social wars America is divided, at
a near draw and leaning slightly towards progress, and the only valuable
implement for social electioneering rom there is to fire up a fearful base and
change the subject from the vast transfer of wealth from the poor and middle
class to the rich and super rich. It is a cynical election strategy that for 30
years has separated a substantial and fearful block of Americans from voting
their economic interests. Score one for your side.
But now the Republican right has painted itself into a
corner from which the path to escape is winding and narrow. Over 70% of Americans now believe the middle
class is being hosed by the rich. Yet the House votes down the pitiful little
payroll tax extension supported by the vast majority of Senate Republicans. On
policy of course the two month extension is absurd, but politically the House
has lined up once again in opposition to the middle class.
It’s going great.
And no, I do not believe our president is a Marxist.
Mike I just
received your email and about ready to jump in bed. I’m leaving for TN for a
few days in the morning but I did want to reply quickly but I must keep it
short until later. I won’t be able to address much of the issues I would like.
Mike, I do
believe Obama is a Marxist, his policies, his actions of bailing out wall
street, banks, and auto companies are not centrist positions. Obama according
to John Drew whom was a friend of Obama’s discussed his and Barry’s role as
Marxist Activist in college.
Biden’s
idea to solve the Iraq issue was to divide them into separate countries which
we wouldn’t be declaring victory and bringing troops home had we followed
Biden’s advice. Biden is an idiot and even though I don’t believe he wants to
collapse Free enterprise, if it wasn’t for government service he probably would
have been a pipe fitter.
As far as
the Dems getting their hands on the savings from the war isn’t to lessen the
impact of spending cuts, what spending cuts? The Republicans have been
outmaneuvered each time on that issue. I would rather see that money used
toward balancing the budget or deficit.
Obama can
not run on his record of accomplishments, everything he’s done has made the
economy and job situation worse. All he can do is attack the Republican
candidate to drag him down to his level. Ron Paul is a whacko and hasn’t been
attacked much by the other candidates. The RNC is afraid they will hurt his
feelings and he will mount a third party campaign. Wait until the right
exposes his 10 year newsletter that was plain racist.
Mike I
haven’t suggested you are Marxist, and I count you as a friend. I see no
indications that you are Marxist. I do believe you lean toward Socialism, I may
be wrong and don’t mean it to be hateful in any way. This is just what I’ve
observed from your writings.
This
Payroll tax cuts is a farce, I’m certainly not for these suppose cuts. This is
the Social Security contributions that aren’t being withheld now. Social
Security already can’t meet their obligation for 2012 and now we aren’t
collecting the contributions. Congress are fighting over 2 mos. or 1 year, I
wrote my Senators and told them to vote against the payroll tax cuts.
Now you
called me a Republican, I am a Conservative and not a Republican. I don’t think
much more of the GOP than the Democrats. I’ve contributed to certain GOP
candidates but never to the RNC or any Republican committee.
Obama has
stood down on climate change because the Dems were against it. We could discuss
Socialized medicine for hours. I don’t think any good democrat could be
proud of how this process came about in congress being rammed down
people’s throat. The government has never shown me they can run anything so why
would I want them to be responsible for my health management?
Tea Party
is a grass roots, it has no leaders and is mostly local organizations.
I’ve been around the movement and been to marches and meetings. I’m not in the
Tea Party and nor do I want to be. The people I find in the Tea Party aren’t
conservatives, they are mostly centrist and democrats that are very unhappy for
supporting and voting for Obama. People and leaders in the Tea Party have no
idea who the Koch Brothers are. All the talk about Koch Brothers and the Tea
Party, Mike, is Talking points for liberals. I’ve met Herman Cain
several times starting when he ran for Johnny Isakson senatorial seat. I asked
Herman about two years ago about the Koch brothers and he had no idea what I
was talking about. So not a mouthpiece. Herman Cain is right, many Blacks
were lazy in their choice to follow the Democrat party because of all the free
entitlements Dems are handing out for their loyalty. My thinking on the Occupy
movement are a bunch of thugs and their 15 min. of fame is done.
I don’t
have a problem with wealthy people, I’m not envious of them whether they
inherited it or made it. Everyone has the opportunity to do this with hard work
and big ideas and thinking outside the box. If I had put some of my big
ideas to work I would be among the wealthy. I had the opportunity once
and didn’t seize it, I had a young family and was afraid of the risk and
played it safe with Kinney’s. For most of my 23 year career with Kinney’s I was
the fair haired boy that could take any store and blow it open.
As far as
Republican locked at the hip to Norquist no tax pledge they should be. We don’t
have a revenue problem we have a spending problem period. If you tax every
person making over 100,000 a year at 100% you couldn’t run the country for more
than 4 months. Then what? Forty seven percent of all households pay ZERO
federal income taxes! The top five percent of tax earners pay 59% of all
federal taxes, the top 1% pays 39%. Just how much more should we tax people?
As far as taxes
on the wealthy during the Clinton years is a fallacy, there were so many
loopholes the wealthy then paid less than they do now.
I’m going
to need to wrap this up, the economy blamed on Bush should be equally
given out to Chris and Barney for their part of the housing bubble bust. Bush
was a big spending Republican and I was all over him in blogs. In the primaries
in 2000 I voted for Pat Buchanan.
Mike I have
so much more I would love to comment on but I’ve got to get in bed my
friend. Take care Mike, Merry Christmas.
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